Seán H ([info]ohnefuehlen) wrote,
@ 2009-06-27 10:48:00
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Current music:Missy Elliott ft. Method Man - Bring the Pain

This is interesting as hell. A Swedish couple are refusing to impose gender norms on their child, Pop.

“We want Pop to grow up more freely and avoid being forced into a specific gender mould from the outset,” Pop’s mother said. “It's cruel to bring a child into the world with a blue or pink stamp on their forehead.”

The child's parents said so long as they keep Pop’s gender a secret, he or she will be able to avoid preconceived notions of how people should be treated if male or female.

Pop's wardrobe includes everything from dresses to trousers and Pop's hairstyle changes on a regular basis. And Pop usually decides how Pop is going to dress on a given morning.


There seem to be two great benefits here. Firstly, greater autonomy for the child - avoiding all the "don't play with dolls unless they're soldiers" crap. Secondly and most importantly, a lot of people find that their gender doesn't match their sex, and I can only imagine that being raised without the weight of society demanding that your behaviour match what's between your legs helps in those cases.

The article quotes an essential psychologist who disapproves, but I don't buy her objection:

“I don’t think that trying to keep a child’s sex a secret will fool anyone, nor do I think it’s wise or ethical,” says Pinker. “As with any family secret, when we try to keep an elemental truth from children, it usually blows up in the parent’s face, via psychosomatic illness or rebellious behaviour.”


But what truth is being kept from Pop? They know what they look like naked - Pop knows hir biological sex. And Pop's gender is not decided, and wouldn't be decided even if s/he were being raised traditionally. We don't realise this because we expect everyone's gender to conform to their sex, and are totally shocked if our child turns out to be trans. But the fact that the majority decide their gender does match their sex doesn't change the fact that that is a decision. Pop's parents are taking the step of waiting for their child to answer that question in their own time. I think that's great.



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[info]blackic
2009-06-27 10:09 am UTC (link)
That is kind of awesome.

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[info]lux_fiat
2009-06-27 11:05 am UTC (link)
I think the "elemental truth" used to justify enforced cis-gender identification is utter bunk. I get pretty fucking sick of hearing "girls are like this, boys are like that" and being expected not to ask questions. So when I started thinking autonimously and said "but I'm not like that, not really" I got told I had a male brain. I'm cisgendered, true, but I don't see why that should stop me being who I want to be.

My problem with this is that, sadly, the majority of society doesn't currently work this way. Changes are happening, but I'm not sure if they're happening quickly enough for Pop* to avoid provoking anger and confusion (leading to anger) from people who see gender in this daft binary. While it shouldn't be up to the ignorant majority to decide the fate of this family, Pop still has to live in that very society. Personally, I don't think I'd have the brass balls to raise a child gender-neutrally, but I should probably care a lot fucking less what other people think of me.

*Now that _is_ cruel.

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[info]ohnefuehlen
2009-06-27 11:18 am UTC (link)
I always hear the "but the kid will get bullied" argument, and I never find it that convincing. For one thing, everyone gets bullied - might as well get bullied for having a decently progressive upbringing as for being fat or poor or into the wrong music. For another, yeah, my hypothetical kid could probably fit in with a racist, homophobic, patriarchal rape culture, but I'd actually rather they were bullied a bit.

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[info]lux_fiat
2009-06-27 01:00 pm UTC (link)
Oh no lie. I think my kids, being my kids, are quite unlikely to be prime examples of their chosen gender, and I will make it clear that this is their choice and that they have options. It takes a lot of effort to go against the grain and that is a poor argument for acting against ones moral intuition. But there's only so hard I want to voluntarily make my child's life difficult. I'm not saying that this is the right course of action, but I do feel that trying to reduce the amount my child is forceably gendered is less stressful for all concerned than trying to eliminate it completely.

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[info]tehexile
2009-06-27 11:24 am UTC (link)
interesting.

many of my favourite game characters, such as Myau, are gender-neutral, so i think it is a positive step. i don't think its cruel - not compared to the usual stuff parents enforce upon children in day-to-day life anyway. i don't really think hiding their gender will work, though, the kid is going to know anyway, whether they do just decide for themselves or whether it naturally occurs, and they're going to want to tell everyone, just to avoid people bugging them about it. i also think Pop is a silly name, but maybe it isn't in Sweden.



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(Anonymous)
2009-06-27 12:19 pm UTC (link)
I'm curious as to your relationship with your gender, and the idea of choice. I guess I'm curious for a lot of reasons. I don't feel particularly like a man, and I don't remember ever deciding I was a man and would live like one. (Or not.) Obviously, it's a really easy decision to make, so it's not surprising I didn't notice.

What do you reckon Sean, how do you feel like a man, can you ever remember engaging with that decision? Do you think there's a cathartic moment of realisation or that we just grow into the role, cis or trans, that fits us.

Not really about Pop I realise, but it's a topic very dear to me.

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(Anonymous)
2009-06-27 12:20 pm UTC (link)
Also, I'm Tim Ralphs, and apparently I'm not logged in. Ah me.

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[info]ohnefuehlen
2009-06-27 04:33 pm UTC (link)
Hmm. While I wasn't quite raised the way Pop's being raised, my mother made an effort not to impose masculinity and femininity on me and my sister. I was given what seemed to her a "soft" name, and I remember playing with dolls and wearing skirts as a child.

I never really connected with my gender. I don't reject it, and I've become pretty comfortable with it, but for a while in my mid-late teens it would make me feel quite unsettled. The performance aspects were what I had a problem with - actually I still don't like masculinity, but it doesn't bother me any more, mainly because in feminism I've found a political and philosophical framework which helps explain how I feel and why.

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[info]infinidimincorp
2009-06-27 07:56 pm UTC (link)
So you're saying that feminism helped you feel better about being male?

Christ, I love you sometimes.

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[info]ohnefuehlen
2009-06-27 09:56 pm UTC (link)
I'm glad you like it, 'cause Twisty'd murder me.

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[info]anorexicbrownie
2009-06-27 08:38 pm UTC (link)
I've seen a little of that in my nephew. With two older sisters, he was frequently dressed up as a princess or in girls clothes and given a girl name during play. He also had a thing for shoes that almost worried the family for a bit. He grew out of both and now has the stereotypical boy interests of robots, shows like ninja turtles, sharp objects and so on. I wouldn't call it a decision as much as watching him gravitate. Not that his enviroment could otherwise be called gender neutral.

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[info]era_of_darkness
2009-06-27 09:53 pm UTC (link)
Quite interesting. By the way, I read the article, and just so you all know, the kid's name isn't actually Pop - they just used that for the article. ;)

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[info]rachel2205
2009-06-27 10:50 pm UTC (link)
Hmmm... I've been thinking about this on and off since you posted it, and I can't quite decide what I think. I think trying to bring up a child in a gender neutral way is interesting; I think keeping the child's sex a secret is problematic, particularly since it seems to make the whole thing sound like an experiment, and I'm not sure how I feel about kids being used as test subjects to prove a point.

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[info]ohnefuehlen
2009-06-27 11:10 pm UTC (link)
Okay, the kid's sex isn't being kept a secret from the kid. That would be laughably impossible. How is it anyone else's business?

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